Note about gendered threads

[SweetNSpicy]

Glad I didn't make the thread...

Hermaphrodites were a valid point, but I know from talking to people the vast majority prefer "vs girls" over "vs anyone".

And in case you think different, I have NOTHING against trans people. I'm very sorry for asking.

 

[The Brat Princess]

Glad I didn't make the thread...

Hermaphrodites were a valid point, but I know from talking to people the vast majority prefer "vs girls" over "vs anyone".

And in case you think different, I have NOTHING against trans people. I'm very sorry for asking.

Its not so much the asking. It is the fact that the original question Butterfly asked in this thread was how can we be more inclusive and it has devolved into how can we be more exclusive. The way we learn is by asking questions, but the thing is, are you asking the right question?

Hermaphrodites is an outdated term, intersex is the more used term now. But yes they are a consideration, but outside of that. I pose this question to anyone who thinks gender and sex are the same and interchangeable.

Can you define a woman, including everyone that was born a woman and excluding everyone that is a trans woman?

I ask this because it cant be done. Gender and sex just arnt that easy to pin down. But my main point has been through out that the only harm done by including trans people is that some are uncomfortable at trans people existing. (In which case maybe it is worth examining why you feel that way, maybe there is a bias there you have not considered.) But the harm done by excluding trans people is that first, trans people now can not access something they would have done no actual harm in, but second, the line gets moved and the next group gets excluded till it is only the hyper perfection allowed.

Consider the words of First They Came - Pastor Martin Niemöller it is easy to look away when you are not the excluded group, but that line moves every time some one allows it to do so. Before you know it you are in the excluded group and now have no voice to express why it is a bad thing, because you are excluded.

Inclusion is the best way. I am happy to discuss how we can be inclusive, I don't like defending why exclusion is a bad idea. and it always comes down to some will be more comfortable if we exclude. But that excuses can extend to everything and if you think it cant find you too, it is only because you have not considered how you can be discriminated when discrimination is acceptable.

 

[SweetNSpicy]

Personally, I do link your genitals to your gender, but I did absolutely did NOT want to assault your sense of self! In fact, it's because I respect other's feelings I asked before just making such a thread. It was the core value I was raised with to be polite and mindful of others.

 

[Rainy13]

The problem is - regardless of your personal views on gender - this IS an inclusive safe space and making posts where your view is the only one your catering to, knowing there is a wide population interacting and reading you have to think about how that could target someone’s sense of self- I’m thoroughly with The Brat Princess here, whilst you may have meant no insult it’s clearly something that would cause intense distress at the targeted people. I’d also like to point out your initial idea of ‘person with vagina either from birth or surgery, because a lesbian may be disappointed to be caught by a ‘trans girl’’ infers trans girls are only trans girls pre- op. There are a million reasons why female identifying people may or may not have a ‘vagina’ and some awareness to how you’re ’categorising so many people so bluntly is clearly needed as this is really not generating inclusivity or contributing to a safe space.

Personal preferences can be what they are but this is a communal space and we have to reflect and think about how we’re interacting and the potential outcome of what we’re posting.

Also a small personal gripe but considering this is an inclusive kink positive place can we please check terminology before throwing it around - hemaphrodite is so outdated and associated with a lot of harm. Intersex has been the term for many a year it was jarring to see it thrown about here so casually.

I’m not attacking you but using this thread to promote why we need to consider and balance our views vs what keeps this place safe and fun for everyone!

 

[The Brat Princess]

Personally, I do link your genitals to your gender, but I did absolutely did NOT want to assault your sense of self! In fact, it's because I respect other's feelings I asked before just making such a thread. It was the core value I was raised with to be polite and mindful of others.

Ok, so this is not an opinion, this is just what it is. But if you study advanced biology gender and sex are considered linked as for most people they are in alignment, but NOT the same. Basics,

Sex: The biology that makes up the body, this is extremely complicated and in lower biology they teach of the two most common chromone patterns XX and XY. But it is far more complicated than that not only are there XXY, X, YYX etc. but there are far more characteristics that make the sex of the body.

Gender: A social construct of justifiable and acceptable actions that displays a persons gender identity, the things that define what is and is not acceptable within the gender expression can and douse change based upon time and location.

So put simply, sex is what you are, gender is what you present to the world. In the most stereotypical way that would be boys: Blue, trucks, trains, science Girls: Pink, baby's, dolls, cooking, cleaning. Now not everyone will fit the stereotype, nor should they and that is why there are a lot of things that associate to gender. And as I said those attributes change based on time and location. In the 1800 it would be men wearing make up, showing emotions and wearing high heels. In the middle east a woman would be expected to fully cover vs in America a woman can wear far less.

No I am a gender abolitionist so I don't believe the category's offer utility. I believe there is no reason a woman can not compete against a man in anything if she wants to and vise versa and if separating the sex's no longer matters gender offers no utility.

So there is a difference between the two and regardless of my wishes we live in a world where women are expected to fit in the female gender stereotype and men in the male. but nothing is that simple an plenty of people can and do break out of that expressing their gender identity in new and beautiful ways. Hopefully that helps to understand why they is an association between gender and sex but why the two are not the same.

I am grateful you asked but lets run a hypothetical, the same one that has been done with the whole bathroom thing. Lets say there is a thread like that made, how do you police it? Because you would need some way to ensure it is only people with vaginas joining. Are we going to have sending your photo to some random place to prove your genitals? If so, who do we trust with that? and if it happens how many are going to be comfortable doing that? I know I wouldn't.

Lets now run the inclusive version. Person joins and says I am a girl, thread says ok, you are a girl. Person is treated as a girl. The end. Will there be some people that are uncomfortable, sure. But usually the reasons they are uncomfortable with it are form a place of intolerance, disgust or ignorance. None of these justify exclusion really.

Preference is acceptable as a reason when talking about creating a relationship of some kind, then there is reasons to have specifics in what you want and you will find that in the personals section. But in the threads where we all interact, there is no lasting bound and as I said, you can politely refuse to do a task. But it seems that the reason is 'trans people with penis, ewww icky' and I am sorry but that is reductive and discriminatory considering it is in relation to a thread game.